Inspired by my recent foray into the
public spaces of New York and being the "
armchair urbanist" that I am, I attended the
VPSN's Where's the Square design contest kick-off session last night. Three interesting speakers (Berelowitz, Oberlander, Thom) mused on the topic of where Vancouver's grand public space / square could be and should be. And what other cities have done so well (and we haven't).
My raw notes are as follows.
More information at the
VPSN website for the Where's the Square contest.
------------------------------------------------------------
Imagining a public space for Vancouver: the Grandest Gathering Place
Andrew Pask - VPSN
First of a 4 part event
VPSN - 3 years old
Outreach, education, advocacy on Vancouver's public realm
One question: every mtg: how come we don't have a central public square
Victory sq, smaller plazas, like the VPL
Parks - lots of them
Not quite the same as a public square
South end of the art gallery
Was it just that the city was built this way?
1901-1950: cambie & beatty: park
Central gathering place in the city, now a parking lot
Great place, but lost
Other spaces: queen e theatre plaza, barren space, not realized
Where's the square?
Other questions: where could it have been?
City of Vancouver plan, 1959 plan to 1963
Capital plan
50 years ago: 5 year plan, called for a civic space
Mentioned a few analogues: Union Sq San Fran, LA, Mellon Sq, Pitts
All built with underground parking
Part of the total concept of downtown planning
Conclusion: $2.0M set aside for the project
Site to be determined at a later date…
Defining a sense of place in other places
Slideshow of sample places
Various things you can do: all spectrum of social activity
Proper plazas and squares not really a "BC thing?"
Good examples around BC: whistler, victoria, kimberly
Intrawest: designers recognized the squares and plazas
Social capital, economic capital
Is it possible now? Aren't we too built up?
No, not if there's will and interest
TO: Dundas and Yonge: new square, just 5 years old
Where's the square? Ask people, where it should be, what it should look like
Design ideas competition
Don't have the money to build, but means to foster and stimulate discussion
Prizes… released later this fall.
Intent: each event, inform people's ideas on the subject
Hope that we'll all submit ideas
Timeline:
Walking tours - oct 08
Events: nov 08
Contest released: nov 15 08
Panel discussions: nov 26 08 / dec 11 08
Submissions due: mar 09
Shortlist: apr 09
Final selection: may 09
Public square activation: summer 09
Wheresthesquare.ca
Opens to citizen at large: pros, students, armchair urbanists…
Anyone that's every wanted to take the question to the next level
Intro to speakers
Lance Berelowitz
Urban forum assoc
Town planning, worldwide clients/work
Transit oriented plans, etc.
Written about Vancouver
2005: dream city
Relevant tonight: absence of the centralizing grand space
Edge City
Impressed by turnout
Gordon Price: thanks for the slide (you in the room?) yes. He was.
Picture of english bay: fireworks at the water
So much of public life happens at the edge, at the waterfront
Pre-fireworks evening: 250,000 people on the 4 nights, downtown, line edges, turn backs on city
Wait for sun to set, then watch, and go home
Speculate in dream city: sociological phenom
Very un-centric very familiar with other cities
Ultimate vancouver public gathering, at the edge, linear way
What is our sense of place? Unique public life all about? Not a place at the centre
So much focused on the edge
Public and private funding is at the waterfront edge
Darker side: less effort and money on the traditional centripetal public spaces
The cult of the view
US embassy: look out towards the water (now landlocked by coal harbour)
Stanley Park seawall
Public square 3 meters wide by 10km long
Great social condenser
Something peculiar about that
Centrifugal vs. centripetal models of public space
Other side: what has happened at the center: not much
Vancouver's forgotten square: 1912 - courthouse and Vancouver hotel
North of the art gallery
Fore-court of the main entrance of the square
Height of its use and engagement: 1912 postcard - formal event, flags, crowds
Semiotics of the space: center
High point then
Now: orphaned space. No where near the same energy and importance,
Or identity. Few people know what the space is called.
1967: rename centennial square - who knew
Divorced by center of city: streets, the buildings, and with redevelopment into the courthouse into the art gallery: permanent closure of the front door. It's not the front anymore.
Other landscaping that's been put in there. Filled in the space. Hasn't helped.
Reconsider this space. Go back. It's a candidate site.
Worth reconsidering. Take that space on. Not defined by steets - the space defined by the buildings.
Elements of an urban square
Small town in Andalucia: picture
Elements of a successful urban square: not that complicated
Containment and enclosure
An outdoor urban room: rooms need walls
Scale and proportion: height of buildings to width of square
Buildings too high, square to small: not good
Façade of the square
Ground plane: space between the square and the street
Gigantic overscaled traffic circles: place de la concorde - fail
Climate matters: inside outside, seasons, flow
Durability and multifunctionality
Has to be many things to different times of people, different times of day and night
Square uses change over time, what they do, who they are.
Low key at 10am in the morning, then market, then protest, then etc.
Public facilities adjacent to the square matters
Surface
Urban square, not a park
Conflate the two terms here
Hard surfaced horizontal place
Primary material of the square, needs to be largely hard surfaced
Common denominator: landscaping has its place, but not replace the function
Passive landscaping, not active use
Pedestrian access
No cars going through them
Serve social condenser function: locus of public life of a city
People come together: exchange: love, politics, etc.
Definition of a city: do it in public, not just private space
Location: needs to be a center
Slide: Plaza reial, Barcelona
Built in 1848
Not an amenity, but a necessity if to function
Needs a place for public assembly
Not about passive amenity
Critical to have one
Recent history: soviet bloc, etc. kiev, capetown, etc.
Places where celebrate, commemorate, demonstrate important events
CBC: called earlier: what about Robson St? it's a problem
Don't have an answer. Conflicted about it
Missing the traditional eurocentric square, but done well at the edges
Maybe that's tapping into the zeitgeist. Interested in hearing from you. Maybe it won't be, build it and they will come…
Cornerila Oberlander
Landscape architect
Work on robson square
Animated public spaces
21st century: densification of vancouver
Urban life is here to stay
We will be a community that will communicate on foot
Won't drive cars downtown
Square: urban and downtown
Shoulder new responsibilities, to make a city on foot
Need fresh air
Find places where we feel safe, comfortable, achieve passive & active activities
Don't have enough places for fun: first night example: all but forgotten
Having fun: different than sitting on the seawall at the edge, dangling our feet
IDEAS: Union Sq, San Fran
Seen renovated union square
Had everything in it that Lance identified
Superb execution of paving, all the materials
People lounging on steps, lie down on the grass, etc.
Moveable chairs: very cheap, stored overnight, no-one takes them. Everyone has a fine time arranging their own seat: White / Social Spaces 1962. We sit where we want to sit, not where parks board puts benches
Elegant furnishings: Starcke - wait for table, café. Crowded. People want to be there.
Steps, walls, ground, flower pots, all great elements
Library square Vancouver
Moshe Safdie: garden on the roof, theatre on the roof - can't have that (province)
Wound up with green roof: look at it, but not good enough
What's left of the idea: atrium
Amphitheatre: nothing happening there
No commitment on behalf of city to have a program - a dead space
Paving: pre-fab, totally awful
(laughter)
"This is what I had to work with"
"Most of my landscaping money at national gallery in Ottawa went for doorknobs"
Robson Square: Vancouver
In the olden days… opening of Robson: skating rink that worked
Performance platform
People would sit all over it
Watch performances, etc.
No commitment for programming
Skating rink died
Robson Square in 1980: huge opening, gathering, restaurants, active, alive
All gone now, of course no-one goes there
Animated public spaces
- Listen to what is good for us today in 21st centruy in the city
- Funding
- Continuity of programs
- Built in seating and moveable seating
- Shade/shelter
- Access to public transit
Bing Thom
Bing Thom Architects
Order of Canada
Chan centre, pacific canada, aberdeen center, surrey, new sunset community center
All cheer up: env crisis, financial crisis…. Chinese: opportunity and danger
Bad enough, will become really good.
Think there is something stirring in Vancouver
Cornelia, there's hope
Contour study of downtown Vancouver
The square is at Robson Square
Never got to finish the job: NDP got in, Socreds got in
Front of the courthouse never finished
It is the natural centre of the city
High point of the peninsula
Fantastic space in the front
Walk up lane, vista to the courthouse is fantastic
Crying to be fixed
Couldn't convince the art gallery to make the front door up the steps
Annex and courthouse can be 2 uses: after art gallery goes
New front door: breathe again
Reviving skating rink
Many new skating rinks being built in europe: skate in the rain
Spend a few million fixing a skating rink, don't need a lid
Put the new rink in front of the courthouse
Examples of skating rinks
Long term solution:
What's going to happen when 1.2Bn people want to come to Canada
Best country in Canada - they all want to be here, so get ready
Metro Vancouver: 10Mpepole, Erickson crazy, but think about it…
What are we going to do? The next square: after Robson square
The whole east side.
Beach on the north east side of science world, false creek
Why not make a beach: east side beach
Art gallery: on axis with Georgia St.
Make it an island, floating element…
Why is Vancouver so square? (laughter)
Question & Answer: Panelist discussion
Andrew: what's your favourite public square?
BT: linear square: Barcelona
CO: place des boges(?) Paris: all elements you dream about
LB: il campo, sienna, Tuscany: run a horse race, very theatrical, city hall
Personal/sentimental: lost my virginity there…. (laughter)
Q: amphitheatre - how can we make sure buildings and square work well together?
LB: problem: orthogonal street grid, rectilinear. No curves
Overscaled public realm, but underserved
Roads to wide, public space too mean
How little the pedestrian dimension is served
Interrupt orthogonal street grid
CO: agree
Don't have a typical city sq
Rethinking as to how we get to place of pedestrian destination
Arrange living spaces
BT: want to change scale
Plug for beach on east side
Water square: don't think we should be like europe, should be like Vancouver
Focus on the east side, opportunity there, VAG moving down to false street
Take down viaduct, connect to harbour, china town
Opportunity that will last for next few years
Left forlorn, forgotten
Debate back to a longer range debate about squares…
Different scale of square: variety of sizes of space
Q: how do we focus on spending money on the arts? As a consideration on how public squares function
LB: starting to see a re-investment in public realm
Granville st mall - 10 blocks
Hopefully pleasantly surprised when rolled out
Rather than pointing fingers at sr level of gov't, ask ourselves:
Do we value it? In street? Arts? In materiality?
Spanish village example: small village rebuilding public square
Craftsmen, built to last, tradition: build for long haul. Not thinking about long term buildings
Attn to detail, quality of materials, investment in the front end
Constant battle: spend money up front, other spend 10x longer
See it as an investment in the long term
That kind of thinking let to percolate down to middle level decision makers
CO: working on several projects: for how little can you do it?
Dreadful attitude
Idea of sustainability: produce work that sustains a longer period of time
BT: crisis theme
Financial crisis on wall st, env crisis will come together
In the end, get rid of throw away society and credit society
Willing to have less shoes, shirts, go to more concerts
Investing in spiritual things, less material goods
CO: 1963, husband had invited speaker
Circular garages, Philadelphia, how did you dream them up?
Dreamt up during the depression
Semi depression: rally to invent new ideas: challenges are enormous
Attitude changes will make us freer, more interesting people
Q: programming first? Reason why Trafalgar works, isn't the space, but the fact that there's a reason to celebrate. But not here. What is it that we want to celebrate, who do we want to celebrate?
Talk about celebrations first, then where we'd put it.
LB: cultural factor
Not just about hardware, it’s the software
How we're wired, our values, what do we celebrate or demonstrate about
Public space design needs to be integrated in that
Different from historical homogenous European city
Younger city, mixed city, all immigrants on the panel
Different set of design solutions
Might be more diffuse, more linear. Not sure what answer is
Needs a cultural input: not just theoretical aesthetic solution
Example: in Italy, they go out to be seen in the evenings. But we don't have that activities here.
So maybe we need running lanes or inline skating…
CO: we're somewhat hedonistic
Ski, sail, run along sea shore, don't have time anymore to go downtown to a city square
Rethink how we want to live these days
Q: Vancouver as necklace: edges. Focus on downtown, idea of how much is outside of downtown, transit, where city hall is, what's a socially viable statement
North stairs: sleeping place
We keep dispersing, we aren't bringing it together
Amazing public space between the two stadiums: BC place & GM place
Andrew: northeast false creek: being considered
Dispersal, focus on the downtown… re: competition, open to any concept of space anywhere
Appropriate downtown? Why the focus on downtown?
LB: pg 140 of LB's book, noticed a rich tradition of small neighbourhood parks
Throughout city - block, half block
Have a system, undeveloped, suburban, neighbourhood urban squares
As urbanizing, neighbourhood parks will be more like plazas and piazzas
Not a bad thing, reflection and city becomes older, layers of development
CO: spaces came about in 1928: Bartholomew plan
Parks where people gather, now they're too small - densification, too small
BT: programming
Tremendous energy in this room
Take time out, we care about city; 70's, people cared about city, then less, now people care about the city again
How you make connection of how you care with political leaders you elect
Are we electing leaders or representatives?
Civic election: stir it up: want to be politicians: leader or a rep?
You figure a way of how our values come together
Programming: nothing wrong with robson square, but its not programmed
No-one asked what do you want it to be?
What it is that we need, vs what people think we want and they give us
Enough hardware around, just don't use it properly
Q: formal squares: designed, squares: vs. informal squares
Opportunities for informal squares
People watching along robson st
BT: great spaces are accidental spaces
Designer, you design something, but great things happen when people use your designs in different ways
Accidental collisions, unexpected
Risk: uniformity of experience, people
Singapore: boring place. Homogenous. All uniform: no accidents
That can't be designed
Q: how can we change the mentality of people who think that town center is shopping?
BT: crash on wall st going to solve a lot of that
LB: place for shopping: a sexy thing to do
Enclosed space like a mall not an invalid part of the answer
Danger: exclusively that
Need places not programmed, filled by public, no private interests
Needs to be places for both
Public realm as theme park, controlled and contrived, scares many of us
Need unmediated spaces
Strong strain of law and order, governance, etc
Don't have spontaneous public expressions
But very spontaneous expression at the waterfront…
Hoping over time, less planning on the waterfront; now over planned
Just occupy, claim it
Public places: go, gather, yell, shout
CO: What would you like to do in these spaces?
Q: looking at original design for the library. How can virtuosity flourish?
CO: having been part of library team - after 20 yrs, review the library roof
Made accessible
2015
Safdie: already thought about the access
Movement afoot to revitalize it: come here, sit up there with a book
In the making, will be, able to sit on the roof
Q: sustainable means affordable…
Big thing here: food. Have a food festival there in robson square
But think about re-zoning areas
LB: robustness and flexibility: forget about zoning: allow just about anything
Places to allow more or less anything
Give ourselves permission to relax. Hang out a bit more. Less zoning, not more
Virtuosity is here: no shortage here in society
Deprived of: more liberal rules and regulations what can and cannot be done
Sidewalk table café regulations, inhibits creativity and virtuosity
Unprogramming of public realm
Q: this building: 8th and 9th floor of VPL: interior public square?
CO: when prov gov't moves out, something could happen
Library would like to expand when gov't moves out
But a good idea
Q: which building do you consider looking at in Vancouver for more than a couple minutes (from a square)
LB: perhaps Vancouver has benefited from natural setting, banal architecture
Courthouse square on north side, exactly that. Foil to setup major public building
Very basic strategies and tactics - how to set off public buildings with public space
Can't think of another good example of a historical building
Train station on main st? CN station. Ought to have been a public square. Never built out that way.
Thornton Park. Example
CO: has too many trees! (laughter)
Q: shape of public squares, morphology.
BT: Robson square, was built with transit in mind, underneath
Land use planning, transit planning, two different divisions, sometimes don't talk to one another
GVRD and Translink and the relationship:
Real estate development: if done well
Q: Bryant Park (Alisa): sitting there yesterday
Why public squares in Europe instead of south america, what it is about those squares? Or is it the culture of living in those squares?
CO: know bryant park very well, fave in NA. has all opportunities for everyone to feel comfortable and safe. Movable chairs and tables, perfect. We haven't developed this yet.
Didn't talk about this ghastly liability affair. Makes designing public space so difficult
LB: why euro squares
To great regret, haven't been to those place yet…
Andrew: wind up
Thank speakers
